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Famicom Dojo Podcast: Bleak Games of the Cold War

by Sean "TheOrange" Corse, filed in Famicom Dojo Podcast, Podcasts on Jun.24, 2011

Did the Cold War make early video games unintentionally bleak? Or was the “kobiyashi maru” style of gaming in the 1970s and ’80s more a function of limited memory space and the need for arcade machines to get kids to keep pumping in the quarters?

Direct Link: Famicom Dojo Podcast 06: Bleak Games of the Cold War

Also in this episode: Rebel in Japan “Poop is Funny”, and the premiere of the first audio version of Famicom Denshimail!

Complete show notes at FamicomDojo.TV:
http://famicomdojo.tv/podcast/6

Get a sweet discount on the Famicom Dojo Season 1 DVD if you use promo code “NOSHAME”!
http://famicomdojo.tv/store/fdojos1.php

Tags: Cold War, Denshimail, Rebel in Japan, Robot Unicorn Attack, space invaders

http://twitter.com/pk_gojira Ryan Huehne

Great podcast guys!� I’m a little dubious that the Cold War really had anything to do with the “bleak” games of the 70s and 80s.� In fact, the Cold War was really gearing down in the 80s, not up,� I could go into more detail, this browser doesn’t have spell check, and I doubt anyone really wants a history lesson.� I also think you’re reading a bit too far into it.�

More to the point, however,�I’m suprised�you didn’t mention Pacman C.E. (or Pacman C.E. DX, the sequel).� It’s a remake of Pacman downloadable from the Xbox Arcade.� It takes the same basic concept of pacman (eating dots in a maze, chased by ghost, and power pelts), but after you eat all the dots on one side and then eat the fruit, that side of the maze will change shape!�� It’s a lot of fun.� But the interesting thing about it is you don’t really die.� You’re given a time limit instead, and your goal is to score points in that time limit.� It’s interesting to think about in light of your discussion, as the point has shifted away from playing until you’re out of lives to playing until you’re out of time (and lives, though I dont’ think I’ve EVER had a game end before I was out of lives).� I know there are other arcade games that have been remade in a similar fashion, but I haven’t tried any of them out.

Anonymous

I agree, the connection is tenuous at best. �Just kinda wanted to talk about the overall kind of futility of those early games. �However I think games like Missile Command and Red Alert (obviously) do show that mindset that there would eventually be these type of nearly un-winnable situations. �

I will need to check out that Pacman CE. �I have heard very good things about it.

http://www.famicomdojo.tv/ Sean “TheOrange” Corse

Zac is a BIG fan of Pac-Man Championship Edition. SO BIG that he did a couple of videos about them! 😉

The original version
http://powet.tv/powetblog/2007/06/21/keep-playing-pac-man-championship-edition/

The iPhone version
http://powet.tv/powetblog/2010/01/20/keep-playing-pac-man-championship-edition-2/

And the DX version
http://powet.tv/powetblog/2010/12/08/keep-playing-pac-man-championship-edition-dx/

Addicted

The Famicom/NES Donkey Kong was missing the Cement/Pie factory level.

There is a version that has all the levels:

http://www.retrousb.com/product_info.php?cPath=29&products_id=103

http://www.famicomdojo.tv/ Sean “TheOrange” Corse

Nice! Thanks for the link.
Anonymous

That is actually the rom supplied with the Mario 25th Anniversary edition of the Wii that was released in Europe: �http://bit.ly/d4VrYu

Langland88

Vinnk, what genre of arcade games are trending in Japan since you mentioned they still are around over there?

Anonymous

It is mostly music games, racers and light gun shooters. �With, of course, the latest fighting game franchise and some retro games thrown into the mix. �Mostly tough the game centers are photo booths, crane games and other prize redemption stuff. �Pretty sad actually.�

Anonymous

Hey, thanks for the name-check guys!

Regarding the PowerGlove / Famicom 3D system compatibility, I’m wondering if the question was meant more as “how can you plug in more than one device at a time?”. �In this case, there is a pass-through (basically, another expansion port), attached to the box used by the 3D system so that you can plug in another device. �I forget if you guys covered that in the special or not…

Regarding the bleakness of older arcade games, I don’t know that they are necessarily bleak. �Many games, in general, even of the non-video variety, do something to keep you from playing forever. �Carnival games, for example, will only give you a limited number of darts or shots or rings or whatever. �The game is over when you run out of these “things”. �

The difference between a carnival game and something a little newer, such as a pinball game, is that there is less control over how long you can hold on to these “things” (pinballs, in this case). �The more skill/luck you have, the longer you can play. �You will lose eventually and, to phrase it one way, it’s really just a way to see how long you can prevent failure. �

When you enter the age of video games, you bring in the concept of avatars. �Your “things” are now “lives”. �You don’t end up at your last ring or you last ball, but rather at you last “life”. �Bleak indeed!

What separates the older arcades games as being more bleak, I think, is the lack of narrative. �Game designers were not yet at a point in time where they recognized the need (or necessarily had the processing power) to include some kind of narrative structure to a game. �Sure, you still die in games that have narratives, but you know (or suspect, anyway) that there is an achievable happy ending.

So I guess maybe they are bleak, but they’re not being bleak on purpose. �They just didn’t know any better!

http://www.famicomdojo.tv/ Sean “TheOrange” Corse

I would generally agree, with the exception that there is no other ending to these games EXCEPT running out of lives.� Super Mario Bros., like many of its arcade-inspired brethren, had an ultimate goal — even if it was far off and nearly imperceptible from the starting point. Sure, it also carried over the concept of lives, which was a countdown to an undesirable outcome.� But it also let you save the Princess and defeat King Koopa one last time in 8-4.� And then it’s over.� No one dies.� Everyone lives happily ever after.

You know how some games these days (e.g. Plants vs. Zombies) have an endless attack mode in addition to the way it was intended to play? Well, back in the day, endless attack was the ONLY mode! 😉

Christopher Cantrell

I think that surviving in early video games is just a consequence of the evolution of arcade gaming. As uglyjoe mentioned with Carnival games and pinball, there were mechanical methods of controlling the number of “tries” you had, with the ultimate goal of maximizing the revenue for the operator by keeping games short but enjoyable. This naturally translates over to early arcade games where it isn’t really about survival, but about limiting play time to maximize profits.

Honestly, I think one reason that endings appeared in arcade games was to again maximize profits. Once a game allowed you to continue, there needed to be an ending, and also to keep expert players from playing a machine forever without continuing to pay.

It’s funny to me how these things carried over into the console realm. Look at things like the title screen that requires you to Press Start. This came over from the coin up screen in the arcade, and has persisted until today. In many cases this screen is completely�superfluous�since once you press start you are presented with a menu. Couldn’t the game just begin at the menu? Generally we are stuck with a title screen because of another arcade legacy, the attract mode. Sit at the title screen long enough and you generally get some sort of demo or story intro. While neither of these things are needed anymore, they just keep on putting them in there.

Anonymous

Great comment! �Yeah the attract mode is a definite carryover from the arcades. �If you look at computer games from the 80’s they usually had no such screen unless they were trying to replicate an arcade game as well. �Yeah, we no longer need this mode but I think if it was missing from games at this point we would miss it and it would look odd. �Like if a movie didn’t have opening credits. �They are not required (we have credits at the end) �but it just wouldn’t feel right.

But yeah, passed down from the arcades. �I love video game history!

Christopher Cantrell

Have you guys ever thought of doing a show that compares the NES version of games to their Famicom counterparts? For example I know the Yo Noid! and Whomp ‘Em games were altered from their original Famicom versions.

http://www.famicomdojo.tv/ Sean “TheOrange” Corse

We were going to do that for the Battery Backup episode, comparing the differences in sound and graphics between the NES and Famicom versions of Zelda II, but we found a video that already did the hard work for us, and just linked it in our show notes:

http://powet.tv/2007/08/07/famicom-dojo-the-battery-backup/

FamicomFan

Is there any games I can play with my girlfriend to get her into gaming?

http://www.famicomdojo.tv/ Sean “TheOrange” Corse

My wife is into Peggle and Plants vs. Zombies. Pretty much anything you can play on an iPhone/iPad. Our versions were on Xbox 360, but that hardly made a difference to her.

Of course, she was sort of already primed; she had an N64 and played Donkey Kong and Mario Kart on it a lot, so there was SOME background at least.

Games on the Wii really help too.

But even if she never goes beyond that, it’s fine. I wouldn’t expect her to get into the “hardcore” stuff if she’s not that interested right now. �And even if this stuff doesn’t do it? Hopefully that shouldn’t matter. �It’s not a dealbreaker, right?
Anonymous

Well of course every person is different but I was able to get my wife into puzzle games like Tetris and Dr. Mario. �After I bough her a DS she also got into Gyakuten Saiban and Professor Layton. �Since she grew up in the famicom age she knew SUper Mario Bros. �So when New Super Marion Bros. Wii came out she wanted to play it. �It’s been 7 years since we met and she’s still not a gamer per say but she will take part in my hobby from time to time.I recommend you start with casual games and she if she likes those. �If she has a good time introduced her to something a bit more complex. �Warning if she likes them she may get better than you. �My wife can beat almost anyone at Dr. Mario.Great question! �We might answer it in a future denshimail segment.

http://www.famicomdojo.tv/ Sean “TheOrange” Corse

Oooh, I like the way you think! 😉

Shicky256

There WERE FMV games at the home in the 80’s. *KOFF* *KOFF* �PC Engine CD

http://www.famicomdojo.tv/ Sean “TheOrange” Corse

Sure, but who played them? Hahaha

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